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The standard answer I get is that God dealt with people according to their needs. We are more spiritually evolved, so God can appear much gentler. Perhaps it's because we've lived since Jesus, who shook up the game so much that God no longer needs to act so brutally for us to understand.

;)
I've heard that answer too and it sounds too convenient to me. And to be quite honest, the bit about being more spiritually evolved sounds an awful lot like "as we evolved, so did God" which goes even further toward making the point that God is a human construct. As for "Jesus shaking up the game," I've yet to hear someone explain what happened to shake up the game that much.
He gave us the Holy Spirit, duh.

:)
Well, I hate to sound ignorant, but what does that mean?
The Holy Spirit guides our understanding. Rather than just have to follow the rules, we can understand the intent behind them, and by following the Holy Spirit, we can get closer to the ideal. Rules and strict punishment are no longer necessary, because we have understanding.

Interesting concept. Do you have a biblical reference that shows that the age of Jesus initiated the Holy Spirit?

Well the Pentacost was an event that came a bit after the resurrection. I'm not a bible expert, so I'm not sure exactly where it is. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Jesus came to the apostles, breathed on them, and their heads lit up with fire. I think another version of the story is that the fire came down from Heaven. Not exactly sure.
Oh, I think I recall that. So that's the dividing line between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. Prior to the Pentacost, He was satisfied being a God of vengence and cruelty and clearly favoring the Israelites and after the Pentacost much of that previous character changed. Hmmm . . .
Not to mention his anger was appeased when Jesus took the punishment for all of us on himself.

Personally I think the "substitution" theory is one of the worst ideas in theology ever thought up.

Then why do you think Jesus died on the cross?

If I don't answer you in the next couple days, remind me. :)

I'll be back!
Let me preface this by contrasting two drastically different ways of looking at the Jesus story. The literal-historical method sees Jesus's life as an event in history, something that came into the time line and changed it. It is something that happened 2000 years ago and we are feeling the after affects still today. The majority of Christians see the story in this way exclusively.

The other method is not mutually exclusive with the literal-historical, but is decidedly different. It is a more mythological way of seeing things. Instead of thinking that the events in the story happened so long ago and now we only get echoes of them...the mythological view interprets everything in the story as happening in *my life* right now. On this level, there is no emphasis on a change in the history of the world. The emphasis is all on the truth the story exposes.

Say you read a historical novel, say, set during the holocaust. Through reading it, you get a hold of some important essence of truth about what it means to be human, and how that can be used in your life. Does it matter, then, if the story actually happened the way it was written? To some, of course. But the most important, life-changing message is communicated *through* the events, not by them.

Does that make sense? So why I think Jesus died on the cross has much more to do with what truths about being human and learning to live the best lives we can than what it did for us historically.

I think we'll start with that. I don't want to completely lose you (I tend to do that with people if I go too fast), so I just want to make sure that point is understood before going on. :)
" But the most important, life-changing message is communicated *through* the events, not by them."

Let me rewrite that sentence. But the most important, life-changing message is communicated through the *telling* of the events, not through their actually happening.
So, it sounds to me like what you're saying is that we should divorce ourselves from the history of the Bible and look only at the lessons to be learned. That seems to be a convenient way of getting around the inconsistencies in the Bible. Where is the authority for doing that? If we remove the Bible or the Holocaust from the literal realm aren't we doing that to suit our purposes and not because there's signposts to tell us that's what we should do? In other words, what does the Holocaust mean without the event? Without millions of Jews being exterminated, does the Holocaust mean anything? Without the population of the earth being exterminated, does the Great Flood mean anything?
Haven't you ever read a book of fiction and learned a lot from it? The fact that it is fiction doesn't make the truth it reveals any less true. And to be honest, what is more profound in our lives...a fact that happened years ago, or an insight into the way we think and feel, and how to go about our lives in love and truth? The power of historical events fade over time, this type of truth is eternal.

And most often we learn better through stories than we do through maxims and laws and treatises.

Oh, absolutely. But, I dare you to walk into any church and say "The Bible is fiction with some amazing moral truths in it." No, it sounds to me that you've decided that the only way to reconcile the inconsistencies in the history of the Bible while still clinging to the teachings in it is to say that the history isn't important.

God is a historical concept. His history is chronicled in the Old Testament. Wouldn't it be presumptuous of us to say that the authors of the Old Testament really didn't understand God. That they were more primative than we are and so we must have a better concept of God. They would likely say, "Nonsense! Our God is exactly what we meant it to be. God is nothing less than what He revealed himself to be to Moses and Abraham and Joshua and David. You, oh Christians of the 21st Century, have taken our God and turned Him into something foreign and man-made. It is not the God of Abraham, the God that led the nation of Israel to glory in battle against many foes, the God that favored the Israelites over all others. You have turned God into an idol of your desires for what a holy being should be in your eyes and not what He is." And they'd have a point.

Okay, so I get a little carried away, but you get the idea.

Hehe. But like I said, the mythological perspective and the literal-historical perspective are not mutually exclusive. Myth does not equal lie. It just means looking deeper and finding the universal human truths to be found in the story, and relating them to our own lives. Things can be historically true and significant and still have this mythological aspect to them.

I'm just saying that of the two sorts of meanings, the mythological is *more* important, and when we put so much emphasis on the literal-historical to the point of *exclusion* of the mythological, we miss a whole aspect of our religion...and an important one.


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smcallister

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