Evolution of Christianity (Cont)

Comments

I agree. I personally believe that early Christians were inspired by God (not necessarily a being) the way a poet is inspired by a beautiful woman. They saw something, and it fueled their creativity. They created concepts and images to go along with what they saw and felt. But over the years, we've stopped looking for the thing in our lives that inspired them, and concentrated only on the concepts and images. As such, we've changed these concepts and images without any grounding or connection to reality. That's why Christianity appears so disconnected from real, experienced life.
[this is good]
I have no idea as to how to respond to your writings. To believe christianity is a disconnect from real experienced life is a concept I cannot even begin to understand. I have my faith.
Interesting, Lightandstorm. I think the early Christians definitely saw God as a being. There's multiple references in the New Testament of God's human-like attributes and His presence in the layer above Hell and the flat Earth, in heaven up "in the air." But I don't think that detracts from your argument for inspiration. What worries me is what it is you think inspired them, what we've stopped looking for. You obviously feel that is the important thing of Christianity and I'm not sure I know what it is. Could you explain?

Lori, I'm not sure I understand the statement that Christianity is disconnected from real life either. I'm not sure that the way it's used makes it germaine to the topic either.

I'm not asking you to immediately give up your faith. I'm simply trying to get people to step back from it for a minute and see what it's made of. What is it really that they have faith in?

What I mean, is that whatever real, connected, experienced thing that the early Christians sensed (I believe it is real because I can see it too)...they described it as they felt it. They described it according to how they related to things. It made sense to them to talk about a being, locations relative to the earth, etc.

It relates to what you said about Christianity's God being (or becoming) man-made over time. I expanded on that and noted that nowadays, what we have are these expressions of what early Christians felt. Because we have these concepts and images that they gave us, we don't look any further. Over time, we've changed them according to what we think they should look like...but because we don't sense the thing we're trying to describe directly...our changed images and concepts become disconnected from reality. Does that make sense?

This is not to say that Christianity is disconnected from reality for everyone. It only is when the person stops on the surface and doesn't look for real connections to experience and life. When they don't understand that dogma is an expression of truth, not truth itself. And actually, this happens *a lot*.


I understand and I appreciate your taking time to reflect on faith. I can't put into words what my Faith is for me. Maybe it's just trusting in decisions I make, maybe it's faith in myself. I only know it has been my "faith" that has gotten me through a lot these last 9 years. Perseverance, maybe.....

Lightandstorm, your comment requires that I sit back in my chair and stare into the distance to try and understand what you're saying. Interesting . . .

Well, feel free to ask any questions. ;)
OK. Could you explain your second paragraph in a little more detail? (It really hasn't taken me that long to come to that question, I've been away for a bit.) Who do you think feels disconnected from their religion? I don't suspect that anyone who claims to be a Christian (or Jew or Muslim for that matter) would admit to being disconnected from their religion. So I think I must not understand what you're saying entirely.
To be honest, most don't feel disconnected, because they aren't aware of the disconnect. People get caught up in the rules and trying to be correct and defending their belief system. Because they feel challenged on the literal/historical/scientific level, they concentrate all of their effort in these areas, and so these are the areas they feel their religion applies to. But all of these symbols and myths in Christianity point to real things in our lives. Existential crises, how to deal with suffering and fear, how to look at the world in such a way that you can love it, etc. All the things people take literally have such deeper meaning when they are grounded and connected to life and experience.

But so many people miss this level. They cling to what their idea of truth is and in the meantime disown the inner meaning of their religion.

I believe that, even though they spoke in terms of beings and places in relation to eart, etc...the early Christians grasped this inner meaning. Over the years, Christians have become caught up in defending the surface meaning, thinking that without that, Christianity is worthless.

I think it's even gotten to the point where people hold up dogma that actually runs counter to the inner message. Or, they just interpret dogma or hold political convictions that also reveal their lack of understanding of their religion.

It's sad, but to be honest, it's understandable.
I'm interested in the evidence that shows the early Christians understanding the "inner meaning" that we seem to have lost touch with. Can you give some examples of what you're talking about in the first paragraph? For instance, what things are we taking literally that have deeper meaning when "grounded and connected to life and experience," and what is the deeper meaning?
Well, the evidence is that they came up with ideas the way they did. The form their imagination and the images they created took. I do believe that they, at the time, believed in the factual truth of their claims as well (or at least, some groups of them did), but in order to take the meaning they did from the events that happened, there had to be some sense of this deeper meaning.

Let's take a big one. Christ's death and resurrection. Most Christians believe a theory that suggests Jesus became a substitute for us and took the punishment for our sins, and so if we believe in him and what he can do for us, we will get to Heaven. See how the events are something that happened long ago, disconnected from the present, and the consequences are something distant in the future. None of it really gets at our experience right now.

But, there is an alternative way to understand it. Not that they are mutually exclusive, but another level upon which to look at things. Christ shows us a unique example of what to do when confronted with suffering. Do not fear. Remain open and welcoming, to everything. When you welcome death (suffering, the bad things that you cannot avoid), you conquer it.

I don't have time to finish this comment, but I will tomorrow. :)
I'm looking forward to your finishing comments.
Here, this post might help. I wrote it earlier today when trying to explain how the concepts of Hell and sin apply in our lives right now.

If you would like me to point to more examples, let me know. :)

Lightandstorm, I've read your post and believe you are unwittingly helping me make my point. Your interpretation of heaven and hell, God and Christ, is not mainstream Christianity. (I'd dare you to read your post at a Pentacostal church--not that they're mainstream, but they do represent a branch of Christianity.) Nor do I believe that it's anything like what the early Christians believed. That's fine . . . except here's the rub. You're advocating for a sort of Christianity that's largely of your own conception. You've pieced together ideas from here or there or on your own into a metaphysical universe that could likely be stamped as yours and yours alone. On what authority have you changed the principles of Christianity established by the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD? The many different types of Christianity practiced today only vaguely resemble the Christianity established back then. How did it change? By Papal decrees, political intrigue, reformation, creation of denominations, individual interpretation like yours. No particular divine inspiration on any of those, yet they fundamentally changed the way we look at our concept of God so that today we no longer think God resides in a heaven physically just above the air and above our flat earth that is physically above the physical location of hell. That's a pretty big change and it's all man-made. Just like your beliefs in your post.

I was never disagreeing with you, actually. :)

Beliefs are definitely man-made. The difference I was hopefully trying to point out is that some beliefs are made from divine inspiration (aka, experience of the holy, intuitive knowledge of authenticity/truth, connectedness to reality and life) and some are based of other people's inspiration and hence disconnected.

As for my beliefs vs the early Christians, well there were definitely some groups that thought more along these lines (although, they didn't end up winning in the end). That, and I was trying to get at the underlying meaning, the things that inspired the concrete, surface beliefs, because they didn't come out of nowhere. Christianity is largely a reaction of Christians to Jesus's death. It's how they learned to cope with the failure of a movement they thought would change the world. In trying to make sense of it, they touched on some very important, perhaps archetypal truths, and these things made it into their writings and images.

However, I definitely don't think they would agree with me flat out, that's for sure, so I do get your point. :)

Post a comment

Already a Vox member? Sign in

smcallister

About Me

smcallister
United States

Neighborhood

Explore friends, family, friends & family, or entire neighborhood.

Archives

Visitors